Ideological Criticism (Discussion)/Chat transcript

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Time User Said
Thu Nov 13 14:58:14 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I see we have one more joining us...
Thu Nov 13 14:58:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
whoa and a bunch just arrived
Thu Nov 13 14:58:42 2008 Jeremy_Butler
hello Katie, Nathan, and Amanda!
Thu Nov 13 14:58:49 2008 Katie_Hallman
Hi!
Thu Nov 13 14:58:57 2008 Nathaniel_Phillips
hey
Thu Nov 13 14:58:59 2008 Amanda_Killen
hi!
Thu Nov 13 14:59:01 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Greetings, Erin!
Thu Nov 13 14:59:06 2008 Erin_Williams
hello!
Thu Nov 13 14:59:12 2008 Jeremy_Butler
G'day Bethany!
Thu Nov 13 14:59:32 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Hello to you all from Phoenix Arizona!
Thu Nov 13 14:59:55 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Is anyone joining us from somewhere besides Tuscaloosa/Northport?
Thu Nov 13 15:00:01 2008 Christy_Abercrombie
bham
Thu Nov 13 15:00:02 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Christy: Are you in Bhm?
Thu Nov 13 15:00:06 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I see
Thu Nov 13 15:00:06 2008 Christy_Abercrombie
yes sir
Thu Nov 13 15:00:26 2008 Bethany_Andrews
hello!
Thu Nov 13 15:00:48 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I see now that we've got 8 students
Thu Nov 13 15:00:58 2008 Jeremy_Butler
That's about half the class.
Thu Nov 13 15:01:14 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'll give the others a little while before we start
Thu Nov 13 15:01:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Hey, Ben!
Thu Nov 13 15:01:35 2008 Benjamin_Kallam
Hey
Thu Nov 13 15:03:18 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Hi, Marissa!
Thu Nov 13 15:03:23 2008 Marissa_De_Anda
hello
Thu Nov 13 15:03:29 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Greetings, Nic!
Thu Nov 13 15:03:34 2008 John_Gulas
helllo
Thu Nov 13 15:03:35 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Hey, Brian
Thu Nov 13 15:03:58 2008 Brian_Hubble
Hi.
Thu Nov 13 15:04:00 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Hello, Graham!
Thu Nov 13 15:04:05 2008 Jonathan_Carpenter
hey room
Thu Nov 13 15:04:23 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I see about 15 of you made it!
Thu Nov 13 15:04:26 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Excellent!
Thu Nov 13 15:05:03 2008 Jonathan_Carpenter
so whats the word?
Thu Nov 13 15:05:21 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'm in Phoenix just now
Thu Nov 13 15:05:44 2008 Jonathan_Carpenter
nice out there?
Thu Nov 13 15:06:05 2008 Amanda_Killen
that's awesome
Thu Nov 13 15:06:12 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Kinda looks like this (see way too big image dispalying above
Thu Nov 13 15:06:20 2008 Erin_Williams
that's really pretty - how's the weather?
Thu Nov 13 15:06:23 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
nice. you golf?
Thu Nov 13 15:06:38 2008 Bethany_Andrews
that's beautiful
Thu Nov 13 15:06:39 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
that is really cool
Thu Nov 13 15:06:55 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Let's go back to Screenpedia...
Thu Nov 13 15:06:57 2008 Brian_Hubble
Very nice.
Thu Nov 13 15:07:15 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'm in my parents house... which makes this pretty strange for me!
Thu Nov 13 15:07:23 2008 Amanda_Killen
hahaha
Thu Nov 13 15:07:26 2008 Benjamin_Kallam
Ha
Thu Nov 13 15:07:27 2008 Marissa_De_Anda
lol
Thu Nov 13 15:07:34 2008 Katie_Hallman
haha
Thu Nov 13 15:07:35 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'm having high school flashbacks...
Thu Nov 13 15:07:43 2008 John_Gulas
lol
Thu Nov 13 15:07:47 2008 Amanda_Killen
lol
Thu Nov 13 15:07:54 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'll tell you one bit of Central High School (Phx) trivia before we start.
Thu Nov 13 15:08:07 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I went to school with John McCain's wife, Cindy
Thu Nov 13 15:08:11 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Central, class of '72
Thu Nov 13 15:08:14 2008 Katie_Hallman
omg!
Thu Nov 13 15:08:16 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
well
Thu Nov 13 15:08:18 2008 Marissa_De_Anda
really
Thu Nov 13 15:08:19 2008 Amanda_Killen
woahhh
Thu Nov 13 15:08:19 2008 Katie_Hallman
that's crazy
Thu Nov 13 15:08:29 2008 Erin_Williams
wow!
Thu Nov 13 15:08:31 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I had an offer of $300 for my senior year yearbook
Thu Nov 13 15:08:33 2008 Bethany_Andrews
did you know her?
Thu Nov 13 15:08:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
from a guy who collects celebrity yearbooks
Thu Nov 13 15:08:42 2008 Katie_Hallman
i would take the $300
Thu Nov 13 15:08:44 2008 Benjamin_Kallam
What was she like?
Thu Nov 13 15:08:56 2008 Amanda_Killen
that's so funny
Thu Nov 13 15:08:58 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'd guess it's worth a LOT less now... :(
Thu Nov 13 15:09:16 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay, enough Phx trivia...
Thu Nov 13 15:09:35 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Thank you all for trying out this chat thing
Thu Nov 13 15:09:43 2008 Jonathan_Carpenter
seems ok
Thu Nov 13 15:09:48 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I did it on Tuesday with TCF 340 -- right Nathan?
Thu Nov 13 15:09:51 2008 Jeremy_Butler
And it worked okay
Thu Nov 13 15:09:59 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
yea, we should do it again sometime
Thu Nov 13 15:10:00 2008 Nathaniel_Phillips
yeah it worked out pretty well
Thu Nov 13 15:10:08 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Plus I learned some stuff about the interface that should make it better this time
Thu Nov 13 15:10:21 2008 Jeremy_Butler
here's what we're going to do...
Thu Nov 13 15:10:26 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'm going to divide you up like we do in class
Thu Nov 13 15:10:37 2008 Jeremy_Butler
but here it's called 'breakout rooms'
Thu Nov 13 15:10:54 2008 Jeremy_Butler
You'll be able to chat there as individual groups
Thu Nov 13 15:11:03 2008 Jeremy_Butler
about the terms displayed above, from Screenpedia
Thu Nov 13 15:11:16 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Then your group leader will be responsibel for reporting to the class
Thu Nov 13 15:11:17 2008 Jonathan_Carpenter
will we need to click something
Thu Nov 13 15:11:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'll do the dividing
Thu Nov 13 15:11:45 2008 Jeremy_Butler
You don't need to 'virtually' rearrange your chairs
Thu Nov 13 15:11:59 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Although you may walk around your apartment/dorm room if you feel like it!
Thu Nov 13 15:12:15 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay...
Thu Nov 13 15:12:31 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
okay
Thu Nov 13 15:12:35 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Theother thing is there are some little icons just to the right of the text enry box
Thu Nov 13 15:12:43 2008 Jeremy_Butler
a check mark, an X, a hand
Thu Nov 13 15:13:01 2008 Jeremy_Butler
If you click the checkmark, it means "yes" and puts a check next to your name
Thu Nov 13 15:13:06 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The 'X' means no
Thu Nov 13 15:13:25 2008 Jonathan_Carpenter
pertaining to
Thu Nov 13 15:13:30 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So, everyone try that out: If you understand what we're about to do, click the checkmark
Thu Nov 13 15:13:46 2008 Jeremy_Butler
If you don't, click the X
Thu Nov 13 15:14:32 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Alright!
Thu Nov 13 15:14:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Click it again to clear it from the column
Thu Nov 13 15:14:54 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'm going to divide you now...
Thu Nov 13 15:16:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay... everyone is in a breakout room now
Thu Nov 13 15:16:59 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I can broadcast to the whole class, but you can only type to your group members
Thu Nov 13 15:17:08 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'll come visit each room...
Thu Nov 13 15:17:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
... but start working on the terms listed for your group in Screenpedia above
Thu Nov 13 15:17:49 2008 Jeremy_Butler
You can send me a personal message by using the drop-downlist to the left of the text entry box
Thu Nov 13 15:26:50 2008 Jeremy_Butler
We'll work in breakout rooms until 2:35
Thu Nov 13 15:28:34 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Ideology and contradiction in the texts of television
Thu Nov 13 15:28:42 2008 Jeremy_Butler
ooops... I mean...
Thu Nov 13 15:29:05 2008 Jeremy_Butler
If you room finishes early, please start working on the Screenpedia section titled 'Ideology and contradiction in the texts of television"
Thu Nov 13 15:31:33 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Hey, Chuck
Thu Nov 13 15:31:54 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Do you read me?
Thu Nov 13 15:32:10 2008 Charles_Chapleau
yes sir
Thu Nov 13 15:32:31 2008 Charles_Chapleau
sorry im late
Thu Nov 13 15:32:33 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The class has been divided into breakout rooms until 2:35
Thu Nov 13 15:32:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I'll move you into yours.
Thu Nov 13 15:32:46 2008 Jeremy_Butler
That's okay. Glad you could make it
Thu Nov 13 15:32:53 2008 Charles_Chapleau
ok thank you
Thu Nov 13 15:35:10 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay... let's move on back into the main room
Thu Nov 13 15:35:15 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Get ready...
Thu Nov 13 15:36:09 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Welcome back everyone!
Thu Nov 13 15:36:26 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Let's find out what folks learned in the breakout rooms
Thu Nov 13 15:36:38 2008 Jeremy_Butler
We'll start with Group 2
Thu Nov 13 15:36:53 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Mitch: how did you guys define 'social classes'?
Thu Nov 13 15:37:09 2008 Jeremy_Butler
(by the way, the chat in the main room is being recorded and will be posted later)
Thu Nov 13 15:37:34 2008 Jeremy_Butler
(Amanda: your group is next)
Thu Nov 13 15:38:31 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Mitch: did we lose you?
Thu Nov 13 15:38:56 2008 Jeremy_Butler
uh oh...
Thu Nov 13 15:38:59 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
I'm sorry, I was having some difficulties
Thu Nov 13 15:39:07 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay... take your time
Thu Nov 13 15:39:25 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Amanda, could you hop in and define "means of production"?
Thu Nov 13 15:40:21 2008 Amanda_Killen
its factories that the bourgeois capitalists controlled - it determines who will work. In Marx's ideology, the working class has the power to withold the labor, or means of production
Thu Nov 13 15:40:32 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Right
Thu Nov 13 15:40:53 2008 Jeremy_Butler
And what is the idea behind 'dominant ideology'?
Thu Nov 13 15:41:14 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Oh, one thing about the means of production:
Thu Nov 13 15:41:25 2008 Jeremy_Butler
it's owned by the bourgeoisie
Thu Nov 13 15:41:52 2008 Jeremy_Butler
They control it, but the working class may go on strike to disrupt it
Thu Nov 13 15:42:11 2008 Amanda_Killen
its a system of beliefs about the world that benefits and supports a society's ruling class . It's an effort to smooth over contradiction in the process of promoting a more unified idea of social subjectivity
Thu Nov 13 15:42:29 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Right.
Thu Nov 13 15:42:52 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So the dominant ideology is the system of beliefs that belongs to the dominant class
Thu Nov 13 15:42:59 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
social classes are grounded in economic s and a person's relation to work or labor. according to marx all conflicts in a society can be boiled down to class struggle
Thu Nov 13 15:43:08 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Mitch: right
Thu Nov 13 15:43:20 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So what did Marx see as the three main classes?
Thu Nov 13 15:43:34 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
aristocracy is the kings and queens, the royal class
Thu Nov 13 15:43:43 2008 Jeremy_Butler
right
Thu Nov 13 15:44:08 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
Bourgeoisie is the ruling class that controls the means of production
Thu Nov 13 15:44:21 2008 Jeremy_Butler
correct
Thu Nov 13 15:44:27 2008 Jeremy_Butler
and proletariat?
Thu Nov 13 15:44:42 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
the poor suckers that have to work for a living
Thu Nov 13 15:44:44 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
The proleteriat is the working class that does the actual production
Thu Nov 13 15:44:45 2008 Jeremy_Butler
you got it
Thu Nov 13 15:45:10 2008 Jeremy_Butler
in the US then, there is no aristocracy
Thu Nov 13 15:45:15 2008 Jeremy_Butler
but in Europe, there is
Thu Nov 13 15:45:28 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Aristocratic power is based in bloodlines
Thu Nov 13 15:45:32 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
The ruling class today is the economic elete
Thu Nov 13 15:45:35 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
elite
Thu Nov 13 15:45:41 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The power of the bourgeois is based in money
Thu Nov 13 15:45:44 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
you could call our celebrity system an aristocray
Thu Nov 13 15:46:04 2008 Jeremy_Butler
the bourgeoisie owns the factories, media, transporation, etc
Thu Nov 13 15:46:12 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Matthew: in a sense you're right
Thu Nov 13 15:46:31 2008 Jeremy_Butler
but celebrities aren't able to hand down their power to their children the way true aristocrats do
Thu Nov 13 15:46:49 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The power of the working class, then, is in their labor
Thu Nov 13 15:46:50 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
So would the ruling class be like the major studios and media outlets today?
Thu Nov 13 15:47:06 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Mitch: yep, the ruling class conntrols those entities
Thu Nov 13 15:47:11 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
huh? good point
Thu Nov 13 15:47:17 2008 Jeremy_Butler
OK, group 1:
Thu Nov 13 15:47:21 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What's hegemony?
Thu Nov 13 15:47:30 2008 Christy_Abercrombie
its basically when one dominant class has influence or control over a society
Thu Nov 13 15:47:33 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Christy?
Thu Nov 13 15:47:37 2008 Jeremy_Butler
right
Thu Nov 13 15:47:46 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Can you tell us anything more about how that control works?
Thu Nov 13 15:48:38 2008 Charles_Chapleau
it describes the general predominance of a particular class, political, and ideological interests within a given society
Thu Nov 13 15:48:38 2008 Christy_Abercrombie
our example was politicians because they are very good at manipulating our thoughts, in terms of what we think we want, or they convince us we have problems and they can fix them... so they influence us by making us vote for them
Thu Nov 13 15:48:47 2008 Jeremy_Butler
True
Thu Nov 13 15:48:58 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The key element to hegemony, as you're implying...
Thu Nov 13 15:49:25 2008 Jeremy_Butler
...is that the subordinated class (the class being exploited), comes to believe the ruling class' values are its own
Thu Nov 13 15:49:44 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Let's try another element of this chat interface...
Thu Nov 13 15:50:00 2008 Jeremy_Butler
If you can answer the following question, click the little hand icon
Thu Nov 13 15:50:08 2008 Jeremy_Butler
That will virtually raise your hand
Thu Nov 13 15:50:22 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Now, don't buzz in yet! Wait for the questino!
Thu Nov 13 15:50:45 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What would be an example of a ruling class value that non-ruling class people believe?
Thu Nov 13 15:51:02 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Brian, that was fast! Anyone else?
Thu Nov 13 15:51:14 2008 Jeremy_Butler
See how it numbers the hand raising column?
Thu Nov 13 15:51:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay, we'll start with Brian:
Thu Nov 13 15:51:31 2008 Brian_Hubble
The disestablishment of the Estate Tax and equating that with the 'Death Tax'.
Thu Nov 13 15:51:41 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Can you explain further?
Thu Nov 13 15:52:03 2008 Jeremy_Butler
While he's doing that: Matthew, what's your example?
Thu Nov 13 15:52:06 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
the harder you work, the better your chances of succeeding in life
Thu Nov 13 15:52:18 2008 Charles_Chapleau
i like that one
Thu Nov 13 15:52:35 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Matthew: exactly. Here's an idea that mostly serves the bourgeoisie, but which most working class people believe
Thu Nov 13 15:52:58 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
the bourgeoisie want to keep the prolitariate working
Thu Nov 13 15:53:01 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So, when working class people accept values that are NOT in their interest, then you have hegemony
Thu Nov 13 15:53:13 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Mitch, Graham: your thoughts?
Thu Nov 13 15:53:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
(click the hand a second time to clear it)
Thu Nov 13 15:53:39 2008 Brian_Hubble
The Estate Tax is a tax on unearned wealth that most came into effect when transfering sums of money from various mutual funds or liquidating assets. But it became equated with a tax charged upon your death before your money is distributed to the benefactors of your will. This is a very short view since this tax only effect the top 1% of earners yet it was used to rally working class people who could never be called upon to pay something like this to defeat it.
Thu Nov 13 15:53:41 2008 Charles_Chapleau
yes, the idea is viewed as the commonsense view for both classes
Thu Nov 13 15:54:17 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Right, Chuck, when ruling class values become 'commensense' for EVERYONE, you have hegemony
Thu Nov 13 15:54:21 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Good example, Brian
Thu Nov 13 15:54:28 2008 Mitchell_DeAnda
It is natural that working class values would be largely dictated by the rulling class
Thu Nov 13 15:55:07 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay, I had planned to divide you again, but let's try discussing the next points as one big class
Thu Nov 13 15:55:21 2008 Jeremy_Butler
we'll use the hand-raising function to try to make it work
Thu Nov 13 15:55:34 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Brian: could you clear your 'raised hand' by clicking the hand again?
Thu Nov 13 15:55:53 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay... we're moving on to DESIGNING WOMEN
Thu Nov 13 15:56:09 2008 Jeremy_Butler
and the episode, The Strange Case of Clarence and Anita
Thu Nov 13 15:56:26 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Mimi White, in the ideological crit chapter, says...
Thu Nov 13 15:56:41 2008 Jeremy_Butler
that TV shows tend to present contradictory messages
Thu Nov 13 15:56:53 2008 Jeremy_Butler
and 'ideological problematic' of pro and con
Thu Nov 13 15:57:11 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The DW ep is very clear about the issues that it raises
Thu Nov 13 15:57:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
You are either in favor of Clarence Thomas's approval as Supreme Court justice, or you are opposed
Thu Nov 13 15:58:14 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What I'd like you to think about is how the ep could be agued as being either pro Thomas or anti Thomas (and pro Anita Hill)
Thu Nov 13 15:58:37 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Those of you in groups 3 and 4 are responsible for pointing out how the sp supports Thomas
Thu Nov 13 15:58:54 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Those of you in groups 1 and 2 are reponsible for pointing out how the ep supports Hill
Thu Nov 13 15:59:16 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Give that some thought and we'll discuss it as a group -- using the hand raising system
Thu Nov 13 15:59:19 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Any questions?
Thu Nov 13 15:59:52 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Go think until 3:05!
Thu Nov 13 16:00:10 2008 Jeremy_Butler
You can send private messages to other group members by using the drop-down list to the left of the text-entry box
Thu Nov 13 16:01:59 2008 Erin_Williams
yes?
Thu Nov 13 16:02:29 2008 Erin_Williams
i am going to say that the episode is saying that these incidences are things created by women for attention
Thu Nov 13 16:02:34 2008 Erin_Williams
yes - i was there
Thu Nov 13 16:02:50 2008 Erin_Williams
and that this has no markings on his capabilites as chief justice
Thu Nov 13 16:02:53 2008 Erin_Williams
assistant justice
Thu Nov 13 16:03:29 2008 Erin_Williams
yes - i thought marisa and i were talking privately
Thu Nov 13 16:04:23 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Remember: to chat privately, you must change the drop-down list on the left to a person's name
Thu Nov 13 16:04:35 2008 Jeremy_Butler
And you must change it back to the Main Room to address the class
Thu Nov 13 16:05:26 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay... everyone be sure to change the drop-down list to Main Room now
Thu Nov 13 16:05:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
DW was produced by a woman who was an outspoken liberal.
Thu Nov 13 16:05:58 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So one would assume that the ep supports the liberal position and is PRO Anita Hill
Thu Nov 13 16:06:01 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Let's start there
Thu Nov 13 16:06:29 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Those of you in groups 1 and 2... raise your hand if you have a point about how this ep supports Hill
Thu Nov 13 16:06:56 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Nic: you first
Thu Nov 13 16:06:58 2008 John_Gulas
The obvious support of Anita Hill would be the "He Did it" shirt
Thu Nov 13 16:07:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Who wears that shirt and how is it a indication of the ep's spport of Hill in general?
Thu Nov 13 16:07:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
(Anyone in group 1 or 2 can jump in here)
Thu Nov 13 16:08:11 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Anyone? no need to raise a hand
Thu Nov 13 16:08:27 2008 John_Gulas
i forgot her name but the shirt takes a direct stance behind Hill's stance in the case
Thu Nov 13 16:08:48 2008 Jeremy_Butler
right... and that's one of the show's most sympathetic characrers: Mary Jo
Thu Nov 13 16:08:56 2008 Bethany_Andrews
Besides the fact that the producer is a female, the most adamant advocate of Thomas was portrayed as being slightly "dumb" and unrelatable for viewers.
Thu Nov 13 16:09:09 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Rght, Bethany
Thu Nov 13 16:09:27 2008 Jeremy_Butler
The sympathetic characres are pro-Hill and the unsympathetic ones are anti-Hill
Thu Nov 13 16:09:35 2008 Matthew_Glasscock
ahh
Thu Nov 13 16:09:49 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So, groups 3 and 4: how might the ep still be read to support Thomas?
Thu Nov 13 16:10:09 2008 Jeremy_Butler
We're running short of time so just leap in
Thu Nov 13 16:10:25 2008 Erin_Williams
well, alison, who wore the "she lied" shirt-
Thu Nov 13 16:10:31 2008 Jeremy_Butler
How does the ep perhaps contradict the producer's stated liberalism?
Thu Nov 13 16:10:40 2008 Erin_Williams
she was sympathizing with the male opinion
Thu Nov 13 16:11:00 2008 Erin_Williams
she was saying that she wanted attention and this was a waste of time because the decision had already been made
Thu Nov 13 16:11:08 2008 Benjamin_Kallam
Even though she was not the most sympathetic character, she still presents a somewhat reasonable argument for the opposition's side
Thu Nov 13 16:11:08 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Anyone?
Thu Nov 13 16:11:19 2008 Jeremy_Butler
       <crickets chirping>
Thu Nov 13 16:11:43 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Good point, Ben
Thu Nov 13 16:11:44 2008 Christy_McGee
They talk about how it took Hill ten years to come forward, and how she did so at a very convenient time.
Thu Nov 13 16:12:10 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What else seems to support the point of view that Thomas is right and Hill is wrong?
Thu Nov 13 16:12:27 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What do you make of the scene at the end where Mary Jo is in Bette Davis make-up?
Thu Nov 13 16:13:01 2008 Erin_Williams
bette davis was very outspoken and with mary jo being in her makeup it gave her a sense of empowerment
Thu Nov 13 16:13:07 2008 Jeremy_Butler
true
Thu Nov 13 16:13:09 2008 Bethany_Andrews
there's a very strong "crazy radical feminist" vibe from Mary Jo that would cause viewers to lean the other way
Thu Nov 13 16:13:24 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Good point, Bethany
Thu Nov 13 16:13:33 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Remember how she says
Thu Nov 13 16:13:45 2008 Jeremy_Butler
I don't care if you thnk I'm a feminist or a fruitcake?
Thu Nov 13 16:14:04 2008 Jeremy_Butler
And then she launches into a rant, in excessive make-up, that DOES seem like a fruitcake
Thu Nov 13 16:14:05 2008 Christy_McGee
(in addition to Bethany's comment) Especially given that they do not give Clarence Thomas a voice in the episode.
Thu Nov 13 16:14:29 2008 Christy_McGee
I don't think...
Thu Nov 13 16:14:34 2008 Jeremy_Butler
So, she embodies the "crazy radical feminst" and thus undercuts the rational feminist perspective
Thu Nov 13 16:14:40 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Yes, Christy?
Thu Nov 13 16:14:55 2008 Christy_Abercrombie
sorry i didn't mean to hit whatever button i hit
Thu Nov 13 16:15:02 2008 Jeremy_Butler
OK.
Thu Nov 13 16:15:15 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What do you guys think of the montage at the end?
Thu Nov 13 16:15:23 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What 'message' does it send?
Thu Nov 13 16:15:37 2008 Jeremy_Butler
What's the 'final word' ina sense?
Thu Nov 13 16:15:45 2008 Erin_Williams
that women will always be silenced, in one way or another
Thu Nov 13 16:15:52 2008 Jeremy_Butler
yes
Thu Nov 13 16:16:14 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Does anyone remember how it ends, specifically?
Thu Nov 13 16:16:19 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Can you describe it?
Thu Nov 13 16:16:51 2008 Jeremy_Butler
(crickets chirping)
Thu Nov 13 16:16:57 2008 John_Gulas
A still shot Anita with her head down behind the microphone while some Senator is speaking
Thu Nov 13 16:17:02 2008 John_Gulas
 ??
Thu Nov 13 16:17:08 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Right... and the melancholy music continues
Thu Nov 13 16:17:29 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Don't you tihnk it reinforces Erin's point?
Thu Nov 13 16:17:47 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Okay... we've run out of time. I know you have other classes to get to.
Thu Nov 13 16:17:56 2008 Jeremy_Butler
Thanks for helping me experiment with the online chat!